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Author Topic: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"


Geoff-
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"Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: October 29, 2013, 23:58

Have Patience With Us: The Iraqi Prime Minister’s Plea to Americans
By NURI KAMAL al-MALIKI

BAGHDAD — Imagine how Americans would react if you had a terrorist organization operating on your own soil that killed dozens and maimed hundreds every week. For Iraqis, that isn’t a hypothetical question; Al Qaeda in Iraq and its affiliates are conducting a terrorist campaign against our people. These terrorists aren’t just Iraq’s enemies. They are also America’s enemies. That is why, when I meet with President Obama on Friday, I plan to propose a deeper security relationship between the United States and Iraq to combat terrorism and address broader regional security concerns, including the conflict in Syria and the threat that proliferation of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons could pose in the region.
It has been almost two years since American troops withdrew from Iraq. And despite the terrorist threats we face, we are not asking for American boots on the ground. Rather, we urgently want to equip our own forces with the weapons they need to fight terrorism, including helicopters and other military aircraft so that we can secure our borders and protect our people. Hard as it is to believe, Iraq doesn’t have a single fighter jet to protect its airspace. [...]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/opinion/international/have-patience-with-us.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

The United States' patience will endure, it seems to me, so long as Iraq's growing economy can produce, as al-Maliki puts it, "promising partners for American companies." Or, to reverse Brian Jones' argument (in the General Discussion), it is all about the oil here...



Brian-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: October 30, 2013, 01:33

Geoff, you didn't pull a Michael Moore there, did you, and omit the part about "rebuilding our infrastructure and reviving our education and health care systems. As we rebuild, Iraqis can be promising partners for American companies in all of these fields."?
(Italics mine.)
Rather like Germany and Japan, no?
And someday (the argument continues), just as in Germany and Japan, Iraq's middle class--even under Hussein the largest in the Middle East (hence the prime focus of the liberal democratic bacteria)--will take its equal place, as a calming and stabilizing influence in the very heart of that troubled region.
And then we will ask them, as they celebrate that victory, won with their blood, sweat and tears, what are you going to do now?



Geoff-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: October 30, 2013, 02:45

[Removing Detroit Tigers ball cap] No, sir!
Only if Iraq can remain a promising business partner -- pumping oil, and giving infrastructure contracts to American companies -- can it possibly prolong the patience of the U.S. (otherwise, Iraq begins to resemble Vietnam, not Japan or Germany, and America turns its attention elsewhere -- until, I suppose, it's forced, because of severe political unrest in the region, to turn it back).
Will America remain patient with Iraq? Only if it stays interested, as al-Maliki prudently reminds America it should, in Iraq's impressive economic potential ("We have one of the world’s fastest-growing economies; it expanded by 9.6 percent in 2011 and 10.5 percent in 2012." etc.). Even if the American people are, as Brian might say, patient in waiting and hoping for Disneyland to be built in Baghdad (though how do we locate the essential intentions of a very diverse 315 million? who did that poll?), the key factor in the American government's investment there will be, I reckon, the prospect of big returns.
It's all about the oil (and the infrastructure contracts -- which might even revive, who knows, good ol' Flint).



Brian-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: October 30, 2013, 23:24

Okay, so we're getting somewhere.
"It's all about the oil and the infrastructure contracts" now.
But still not about anything good, or praiseworthy, or worth fighting for, without cynicism or irony.
Not about what al Maliki, the Iraqis' democratically elected leader, says it is.
"Iraqis are grateful for the great sacrifices Americans have made on behalf of our country. But Iraq today is no longer a protectorate; it is a partner in what President Obama has described as 'a normal relationship based on mutual interests and mutual respect.' "
The 100 billion dollars given--and largely squandered by bad management--by the American people to the Iraqi people, to jump start the reconstruction of their country, so that they too could enjoy the first halting taste of the life and liberty you take for granted; the sacrifice of American soldiers and civilians; the 42% of foreign investment in Iraq from Asia in 2011 (South Korea's 25% is twice America's), the 25% from Europe, and the 12.4% from America; is all essentially in the aid of or straightforwardly American carpetbagging?
Are they all carpetbaggers? the Asians just four-times as bad?
Or are they investing in something that your logic effectively denies (and certainly damages), the future of a democratic Iraq?

Of course, especially still in the shadow of the world's financial crisis, Iraq must increasingly earn its investment, as any proud and free economy must; but the proof, of a fledgling western-style political economy, in the center--in the very teeth--of the most unWestern of environments, is undeniable (consider the recent summary by the non-partisan Middle East Institute: http://www.mei.edu/content/investing-iraq-prospects-and-challenges --or are they Haliburton stooges as well?).

Of course the disconnects to Germany and Japan are many and profound. This is Iraq we're talking about, in the age of South Park, and the government did a very bad job of serving all that sacrifice. But the comparison to Vietnam is simply grotesque and demeaning. I'm sure you don't mean it. That was an effectively unwinnable war; this a winnable peace.

As you say in the About section of this site, when esse est percipi, America percepta matters more, sometimes more even than America itself. And this is my point here, exactly. We could argue forever about how much croneyism and corruption blemished that outpouring of generosity and sacrifice on the part of Americans (again); how much flailing attended the steady movement of its unmoving center of gravity; how long Iraq's delicate democracy can hold out against the brutal forces bludgeoning it from all sides; but finally it comes down to a question of faith, I think, and optimism. The self-serving, easy cynicism of the Mooreish anti-faith has none. And like any form of ubiquitous cynicism, it has the quality--and bears the responsibility--of self-fulfilling prophecy.



Geoff-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: October 31, 2013, 12:45

Patience, and what can prolong it, is (for pragmatic, not cynical, me) the key here. I'm not sure what the United States' "unmoving center of gravity" is (or how on earth that would plausibly be gauged -- America, like Michael Moore himself, is large, and contains multitudes), but I'm willing to bet its attention span is relatively brief. The good, generous intentions of the U.S. (which are undeniably part of those multitudes) won't hold out long, it seems to me, without some proof of return on investment. The Vietnam comparison doesn't seem at all grotesque in this respect, just apt: whatever complex of motivations are responsible for the original intervention, the will to pay for it (in American lives or American gold) will have to compete with the sense that it's just not worth it anymore.



Wyatt Dick
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: November 13, 2013, 11:52

I've spent several days learning everything I could about the Iraq War--in fact, I wrote what eventually sprawled into over a page of commentary about how difficult it is for the average person to sort through the dizzying number of divergent opinions and ‘facts’ about the war. In the end, I decided that posting this commentary would be too great a digression; but I can summarize by saying I strongly urge us to approach any analysis of the war with great humility, and to be especially skeptical of simple, neat, and easy to understand narratives.

With that said, I do think we can make some comments about the American character. My take on Brian’s unmoving center of gravity is that he is referring to something fundamental in the American psyche. America is an aspirational place, and I think history tells us that it is very American to want to be the hero: to save the day, wear the white hat, and help people. Many suggest that when it comes to its foreign policy, realism and idealism are two competing aspects of America’s true self. I disagree, and think that idealism is the true self, while realism is a suppression of this true self in the face of strategic considerations. But it’s not American to want to be a realist.

Europeans, in contrast, don’t appear to be as aspirational, and seem more comfortable just being who they are, while letting others follow their own paths as well. Perhaps this reluctance to get involved in the affairs of others is a result of Europe’s longer history and deeper culture. A sense of shame over its colonial past, and a greater inclination towards philosophical and moral relativism, may also contribute. Britain—never quite part of Europe—is an interesting case. Tony Blair, who is of course by no means a typical Brit, seemed to be motivated by a certain sense of duty. Above all, his speeches sparked the most for me when he talked about doing the right thing when it was difficult to do so.

Of course this American heroic ideal doesn’t always carry the day when decisions are being made and interests balanced. But its influence is always felt, often more at the ground level than at the top, where the higher order strategic considerations that sometimes limit the ideal’s expression hold less sway. Providing a better life for the people of Iraq was never put forward as the primary reason for the war, but it was always among the supporting rationales. And as things went sideways, and Americans needed to look for reasons to stay, you started to hear more about helping Iraqis. When soldiers are interviewed, they don’t talk about geo-political strategy; rather, they are proudest of having liberated Iraq, and of having left it a better place. When the war was freshly won, there were no standing orders yet for how to administer Iraq. What did soldiers do? They began assembling village elders and working to keep the peace, help people, and start rebuilding. They did this until they were told to stop by Rumsfeld, who didn’t want the army to become entangled in policing the locals—he’d been hoping for a swift handover of all such duties to a provisional Iraqi government.

I cannot tell you exactly which American actions were motivated by generosity and the heroic ideal, and which were inspired by self-interest. Events are too complex for that, and often both motivations were involved (and aligned). But when you take things down to the level of the individual, it typically seemed like the more generous ideals provided the real day-to-day muscle behind a person’s actions. Take Paul Bremer, the primary American ‘Viceroy’ in Iraq. He may have made mistakes. And he clearly understood that America had interests in Iraq. However, when you watch videos of him, you can see that he worked himself to the bone during his period as administrator: 20-hour workdays, unexpected surprises every few hours, etc. And when you listen to interviews of Bremer from that time, it is clear that what is ‘getting him up in the morning’ is helping Iraqis. You see this in interviews with the troops as well.

Coming to the more specific assertions made in this thread, I’m actually a little uncertain what Geoff is suggesting. With respect to oil contracts, they may have been among the many ticks in the “go to war” column, but I do not believe the desire to secure oil contracts was ever a decisive factor in the decision to go to war. Even if one approaches this from a completely mercenary perspective, the potential profits are just too small relative to the cost of the war (even acknowledging that in the beginning, everyone thought the war would be much cheaper). Granted, many of Bush and Cheney’s acquaintances were ‘oilmen’ (as were Bush and Cheney), but the President and Vice-President were also fierce patriots. I cannot see either of them putting corporate profits ahead of the national interest. And it seems to me that spending hundreds of billions from the national treasury to put a fraction of that money back in the coffers of a few private oil firms would be just that. From what I have read, the primary aim with respect to oil was to keep it flowing so as to maintain the world oil supply and keep prices from spiking. To the extent that American involvement was motivated by oil, it was ultimately about making sure that someone was pumping Iraqi oil, and it didn’t really matter who that was.

With regard to the idea that America is some kind of ‘fair weather friend’ because it will leave if Iraq make the relationship too costly for the American’s to afford, I’m not sure I see Geoff’s point. This is true of any relationship, be it between nations or individuals. At some point, any connection can simply become too difficult to maintain. This is so axiomatic that it doesn’t really tell us anything. What distinguishes is how high the threshold is before you walk away. And what kinds of ‘returns’ one is looking for to justify their ‘investment’. In the American case, I see no evidence that a few paltry (in the context of a trillion dollars worth of sunk costs) oil contracts are what America needs to stay involved. The ‘returns’ America is interested in are much broader than that. At this point, America is primarily looking for progress along the road to democracy, and the influence that will have on the Middle East. And it is worth remembering that despite Obama running on a platform that called for a complete American withdrawal from Iraq, in the end he asked to stay. The administration wanted to keep a significant number of forces on the ground past 2011; it was the Iraqis who refused.



Brian-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: November 14, 2013, 11:32

Wyatt: When soldiers are interviewed, they don’t talk about geo-political strategy; rather, they are proudest of having liberated Iraq, and of having left it a better place. When the war was freshly won, there were no standing orders yet for how to administer Iraq. What did soldiers do? They began assembling village elders and working to keep the peace, help people, and start rebuilding.

Dupes and patsies. Cogs in the machine, baby, cogs in the machine.



Geoff-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: November 14, 2013, 21:45

No no (to snarky Brian), that's not at all how I'd interpret Wyatt's (rather Ron Howard-ish) narrative ("What did soldiers do? They began assembling village elders and working to keep the peace, help people, and start rebuilding." And one fine morning...). I'm sure there's a lot of truth to that story -- and a lot of truthful counter-narratives, too.
I'm all for acknowledging the reality of Americans' "heroic ideals" (and actions), and the role they've played in rebuilding Iraq (and other nations before it), though I remain skeptical about interpreting these as having a firm and definitive place at the helm of the ol' ship of state, or in the mysterious 'center of gravity' of its eclectic crew. America's (not) just a soul whose intentions are good; oh lord, please don't let her be misunderstood...

We've got three Canadians weighing in here (Wyatt/Brian/Geoff) -- and I reckon this topic could use a little more regional diversity. What do you say, Their America?



Carl H
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: November 14, 2013, 22:03

A "counter-narrative" ...



Brian-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: November 15, 2013, 04:28

Geoff: America's (not) just a soul whose intentions are good

Oops, sorry, I stand corrected.



Brian-
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Re: "Have patience with us: The Iraqi Prime Minister`s plea to Americans"
on: November 15, 2013, 05:43

(Seriously though, I guess I'll exit stage right now, as I seem doomed to misrepresent myself here, to no good effect; but shall follow the comments of others with great interest.
In leaving, may I just summarize?
(1) I have never spoken of heroism or white-hat idealism, in any form, but only of basic decency and generosity at the heart of the people in action (which may sometimes appear heroic of course), denied both by the cynics and the zealots like my socialist friend in the video (though, as I've said elsewhere, only a fool identifies America, or any democracy, with its government).
(2) Much--most--of what has transpired in Iraq has been what I have called 'flailing', and flailing is never good, nor easy to distinguish, for cynics and zealots, from the center of gravity of a person or culture; only much later, if ever, can we see the essential lines of their movement, often invisible to them at the time. (Thus my argument would be the same, even if (incredibly) not one American used the betterment of Iraq as a rationale for the invasion.) Far beneath the level of this debate, the essential lines of America and Islam are in collision, like those of America and its own fundamentalists; and to fail to grasp that, by getting lost in this, seems a shame to me.
(3) If I've failed to make myself clear yet, ill-served by my own Disneyland joke perhaps, it's not all about anything for me, at least not anything on the level of this worldly debate; in the same way it wasn't all about anything at Borodino for Tolstoy. Here I agree with Wyatt's far more educated point.
And here I retire, with sincere apologies for any perceived snarkiness.)

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