American hedonism closes its eyes to death, and has been
incapable of exorcising the destructive power of the moment
with a wisdom like that of the Epicureans of antiquity.

- Octavio Paz
Death is un-American, and an affront to every citizen's inalienable
right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

- Arnold Toynbee
the_band_huge
the_band_huge
"As long as such self-serving hypocrisy
motivates America's response, Ukraine will
only sink further into needless bloodshed,
and that blood will be on America's head."
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
the_band_huge
In America everybody is of the opinion that he has no social superiors,
since all men are equal, but he does not admit that he has no social inferiors,
for, from the time of Jefferson onward, the doctrine that all men are equal
applies only upwards, not downwards.

― Bertrand Russell
Global Coke
Global Coke
"What those 'racists' are reflexively and rightly reacting
to is the soulless chill as the fire goes out beneath the
melting pot. Those who think America can thrive as a
'cultural mosaic' are worse than fools; they're Canadians."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
Global Coke
Two centuries ago, a former European colony decided to catch up with Europe.
It succeeded so well that the United States of America became a monster,
in which the taints, the sickness and the inhumanity of Europe
have grown to appalling dimensions.

― Frantz Fanon
What the United States does best is understand itself.
What it does worst is understand others.

- Carlos Fuentes
Poor Mexico, so far from God
and so close to the United States.

- Porfirio Diaz
the_band_huge
the_band_huge
"Indeed, everything about the American southland was magical
and exotic to the young Canadian musicians, from the sights
and smells to the drawling manner of speech to, especially, the
central role that music played in people’s everyday lives."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
the_band_huge
America is a mistake, a giant mistake.
- Sigmund Freud
America is an adorable woman chewing tobacco.
- Auguste Bartholdi
chimerica
chimerica
"This is the tone of the China Century, a subtle
mix of Nazi/Soviet bravado and 'oriental'
cunning -- easily misunderstood, and
never
heard before, in a real enemy, by the West."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
chimerica
Coke and 'America the Beautiful'
Coke and 'America the Beautiful'
"And for the others who argued for English-only
patriotism, I note that there are more than
57 million Americans (about 20% of the nation)
whose first-language is not English...."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
Coke and 'America the Beautiful'
predator-firing-missile4
predator-firing-missile4
"This is the behavior, and the fate, of paranoid
old-world tyrants like Hitler or Saddam, not liberal new-world democracies like America pretends to be."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
predator-firing-missile4
America is the only nation in history which
miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to
degeneration without the usual interval of civilization.

- Georges Clemenceau
I found there a country with thirty-two religions and only one sauce.
- Charles–Maurice Talleyrand
A people who are still, as it were, but in the gristle,
and not yet hardened into the bone of manhood.

- Edmund Burke
America is the only country ever founded on the printed word.
- Marshall McLuhan
"The removal of racist sports nicknames (and mascots) seems outrageously belated
-- why, exactly, has this civil rights cause
taken so long to gain momentum?"

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
The atom bomb is a paper tiger which the
United States reactionaries use to scare people.
It looks terrible, but in fact it isn't.

- Mao Tse-tung
They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but
they kept only one; they promised to take our land, and they did.

- Red Cloud
In America sex is an obsession,
in other parts of the world it is a fact.

- Marlene Dietrich
I would rather have a nod from an American,
than a snuff-box from an emperor.

- Lord Byron
One day the United States discovered it was an empire.
But it didn’t know what an empire was.
It thought that an empire was merely the biggest of all corporations.

- Roberto Calasso
Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather
be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

- Alexis de Tocqueville
newtown
newtown
"No one, I thought, could watch those scenes, of young children slaughtered en masse, and so many parents grieving, without thinking that this, finally, would tip some kind of balance in the country."
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
newtown
If you are prepared to accept the consequences of your dreams
then you must still regard America today with the same naive
enthusiasm as the generations that discovered the New World.

- Jean Baudrillard
I am willing to love all mankind, except an American.
- Samuel Johnson
America, thou half brother of the world;
With something good and bad of every land.

- Philip Bailey
"What can be more powerful than disinformation in the Information Age?"
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
England and America are two countries separated by the same language.
- Sir Walter Besant
Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by
posterity because he was the last to discover America.

- James Joyce
Now, from America, empty indifferent things
are pouring across, sham things, dummy life.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
If the United States is to recover fortitude and lucidity,
it must recover itself, and to recover itself it must
recover the "others"- the outcasts of the Western world.
- Octavio Paz
The youth of America is their oldest tradition.
It has been going on now for three hundred years.

- Oscar Wilde
"America really is, for most Americans, all things considered, a good place to be, and all they really want is for everyone to enjoy the same privilege and pleasure."
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
When good Americans die they go to Paris;
when bad Americans die they go to America.

- Oscar Wilde
jobs drug dealer
jobs drug dealer
They're nothing more than traffickers; and as the smart traffickers'll tell you, you don't use the merchandise. They are just inoculating their kids with a tech-drug serum, to immunize them against the very merchandise that put the **** bowling alley in their basement.
jobs drug dealer
America is therefore the land of the future, where, in the ages that
lie before us, the burden of the World's History shall reveal itself.

- Georg Friedrich Hegel
America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room.
Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair.

- Arnold Toynbee
Americans always try to do the right thing after they've tried everything else.
- Winston Churchill
The thing that impresses me most about Americans
is the way parents obey their children.

- Edward, Duke of Windsor
Americans are apt to be unduly interested in discovering
what average opinion believes average opinion to be.

- John Maynard Keynes
Europe was created by history.
America was created by philosophy.

- Margaret Thatcher
America is God's crucible, the great Melting-Pot where all the races of
Europe are melting and reforming!... The real American has not yet arrived.
He is only in the crucible, I tell you - he will be the fusion of all races.

- Israel Zangwill
American dreams are strongest in the hearts of those
who have seen America only in their dreams.

- Pico Iyer
America: It's like Britain, only with buttons.
- Ringo Starr
The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer.
It has never yet melted.

― D.H. Lawrence
I have two conflicting visions of America.
One is a kind of dream landscape and the other is a kind of black comedy.

― Bono
The American mirror, said the voice, the sad American mirror
of wealth and poverty and constant useless metamorphosis,
the mirror that sails and whose sails are pain.

― Roberto Bolaño

April 16, 2024

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Author Topic: We Should Not Be Feminists


notvladimi-
rputin
Novice Their American
Posts: 5
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We Should Not Be Feminists
on: March 12, 2017, 11:58

I am a woman, and I am most definitely not a feminist. This may be shocking to some, because feminism is currently quite trendy in media, pop culture, and literature. Every book and movie is immediately required to have a "strong female protagonist". Though I admire Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie as a motivational speaker and masterful author of fiction, I cannot agree with her much-lauded speech, We Should All Be Feminists. In this speech, Adichie seems to be focused on the concept of gender binaries: the different ways in which men and women are treated within modern society. She focuses on the systematic oppression women have faced in the past, and while this is a valid topic, I fail to see how we can attain true equality if we keep focusing on the perception of women as unequal. By highlighting the ways in which women have been stigmatized, and what occurs when they speak out, Adichie is creating a definite divide between the sexes. Though she does speak on the concept of toxic masculinity and how it affects young boys, they are decidedly a separate category. Why does this binary still have to be upheld? Can we not accept that we live in a postmodern society where women are afforded the same opportunities, rights, and status as men? I realize I am speaking from a Western, first-world perspective. And in some parts of the world, women's rights is still a battle that must be fought, in which Adichie's speech still applies. Yet having grown up in Canada I cannot recall one instance where I have been treated with sexism. And shouldn't I, as a postmodern woman, be able to choose my own beliefs, both political and personal? I do not feel that I should participate in a Woman's March or subject people to rants about the patriarchy. I am a human being, first and foremost. I do not feel a particular allegiance or kinship for those who simply happen to share a gender with me.

I am neither my brother nor my sister's keeper.



TrentStude-
nt93
Novice Their American
Posts: 8
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: March 14, 2017, 13:17

While I understand what you are saying, I have to be honest and say that your statement is shocking to me. It simplifies feminism, viewed by many as the global struggle for gender equality, to a passing trend. I think we would agree that there are many vocal Western feminists who disenfranchise potential supporters every time they’re affronted by the slightest gender faux pas; they jump to decry the patriarchy and the systematic suppression of women over a misused pronoun or a refusal to march in a parade. What I think is important is that we, as women who have lived unmolested lives in Canada, are a voice for those who will never experience this kind of life. I am also a human being, and while I don’t feel a particular allegiance to those who happen to share my gender, I recognize that identifying as a feminist is the absolute least one can do to support about half the human population in the world, many of whom are unable to speak up for themselves.



rodrica
New Member
Posts: 4
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: March 15, 2017, 12:17

I found your view on feminism interesting as many do not usually oppose it but I think an important part of feminism is missing from your view. Feminism is a global movement that takes place around the world. You do speak about how you have a first world perspective on feminism in Canada and how you have not dealt with it as an issue but I think it is important to know that there are still issues within Canada as well. For instance not being paid the same amount as men is one example of ways women fight to be equal to men through feminism. Also movements like the Woman's March in western countries often lead to more movements around the world where other battles still need to be fought that Adichie's speech applies too. It is also important to mention that feminism is often confused with oppressing men where feminism is suppose to represent equally for everyone. Social media and new ways of seeing these movements across the global can impact so many lives to help people around the global be treated with equality.



megannduff-
ett
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: March 15, 2017, 19:21

It is interesting to read your point of view. Feminism is defined as the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. Feminism is something that is important all across the globe, and in Canada, many of us have not faced any outrageous forms of sexism, if any at all. From a first world point of view, there are still some issues when it comes to gender differences, such as men and women getting paid differently, but these topics are being advocated for through the feminist movement. As there are some other issues involving feminism, the use of the Woman's March and other events like that occur because some other places outside of Canada do not give men and women equal rights, and therefore, the battle still needs to be fought. I hate to make assumptions but from your perspective, I feel as if you are getting feminism and the radical feminists confused. By radical feminist, I am referring to the bra burning, man hating feminists. In that case, I would agree with you that we shouldn't those violent feminists that the media has created, but in regards to the definition of provided above, I believe that there is not problem being a feminist fighting for equality between men and women.



AmandaMaci-
ocia
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Posts: 4
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: March 16, 2017, 11:52

Rodrica, I share the same reaction as you towards the main post. I agree entirely about the fact that feminism is surely a global issue, but most importantly, it has and still does take place in our first-world country, Canada. Notvladimirputin, I appreciate what you have said in your post, but I would have to agree with Rodrica’s point that simpy because you have lived in a first-world country (Canada) and have not experienced feminism yourself, does not diminish the fact that it does not exist anymore. I believe that it has been present and still is an issue in Canada. Rodrica added some valuable, major supporting evidence that antifeminism still exists in parts of Canada. I can voucher that feminism not only still exists in major issues such as women and men not being paid equally, but it is definitely still instilled in the small everyday mentalities of people. For example, I can personally say that some of my male family members have an antifeminist attitude towards the women in my family. I remember an instance in high school when I was looking for part-time work and I was hired by Old Navy, in the Oshawa Centre. I was so excited and told my whole family and one of my male family members did not return the excitement back, but instead said, “you don’t need a job, stay in the kitchen, woman!” It broke my heart to not have the support from all of your family, but I understood his thinking was wrong. It is sad how even though we do live in a first-world country, feminism strongly remains in cultured families, especially European families such as my own, in which male-chauvinistic mind-sets are instilled in the minds through generations. This doesn’t go to say from my example that men are the culprits, but women too share the same mentality because some are taught this mentality, just as men.



trentstude-
nt101
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: April 4, 2017, 12:33

Everyone has different views on feminism, and I think it was interesting to read a female point of view in which someone opposes feminism. As stated in some of the posts above, I agree that feminism and women's rights are still a fight and struggle in other countries, but it continues to occur here in first world countries as well, even Canada. It may not be as outright here in Canada as in other countries, and it may not be as much of a struggle or as harsh, but it still occurs. There was an article that I read in which a man took of his socks and shoes and stuck his feet up above a person's head and it took the person who he did it to telling him it was wrong for him to realise it. No one from the airline told him it was inappropriate. So you would think that an dress code or conduct would be okay on a plane? That is not the case though. Two females were not allowed on the plane because they were wearing leggings. So a man can take off his shoes and socks and put himself in someone else's space to be comfy, but when females wear certain clothes so they can be comfy they are turned away? I have even heard stories of how young girls are sent home because they are showing too much "skin" and it would distract the boys. So females have to watch what they do so that they don't cause trouble for males? Females should not be body shamed or told that they are the cause of all the problems just based on what they wear. Even though this may not be as harsh or degrading as feminist issues and women's rights issues in other countries, we are still having issues with women's rights here in Canada.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lauren-messervey/leggings-dress-code-female-body_b_15668546.html



eyeofthesk-
y
Novice Their American
Posts: 8
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: April 5, 2017, 00:08

This is indeed an interesting topic, and one that is highly debated. While the original poster addresses the issues of pointing out a divide between the sexes, I disagree that an emphasis of this divide will only lead to further inequality. It is through pointing out these divides that we are able to improve on the inequality between sexes. This now not only includes the female/male division but also the LGBTQIA communities. Of course, as with all movements there are extremists who create a bad rep for feminism, but many of these modern issues are pertinent and need to be addressed. I agree with previous posters that while sexism may be more prominent in other countries, there are still quite a number of issues in our own backyard. I disagree with Adichie that "everyone" should be a feminist, but I believe she makes some good arguments for the rights of women, especially women of colour. As for the issue with the girls being refused access to the plane, I read a follow-up article to the story that talks about how they were supposed to be part of the business class and were representing the company name. Not that this condones the refusal at all, just might shed some light on the fact that it was less of a feminist issue and more of a problem with adhering to the business attire dress code for the United Airlines company travel guidelines.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/03/26/two-girls-barred-from-united-flight-for-wearing-leggings/?utm_term=.7a8ddcd183b8



Aerlyn1
Novice Their American
Posts: 6
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: April 5, 2017, 12:21

It is exciting to note the progression of women's rights to the point that there is at times a perception of equality in Canada. If we are to look only one generation back, many of these assumed equalities would not exist, even in large urban centers. Not so long ago abortion was illegal (and is still unavailable in some provinces), rape always went unpunished (as it often still does), divorce laws left many families in abusive homes or out on the street (single mothers still have one of the lowest SES, putting their children at undue risk) , women had a difficult time finding any work (wage gap and underrepresentation in top tier jobs) and were not allowed to get a mortgage or a hydro bill. In my lifetime women gained the right to vote in places like Argentina and Switzerland and lost rights in places like Afghanistan. Other wins were also made like the right to play any sport, do any job, wear anything. This breaking down of binaries also helped to pave the way for men to do any job, wear anything, and the LGBT movement as well.This is why there is feminism as a movement, to gain equal rights to choose one's own life course, whether that be in a traditional or nontraditional role.

Feminism is considered to be in its third wave. The first wave was the suffragettes fighting for the right to vote. The second wave was after the second world war fighting for the right to workplace, sexuality, family and reproductive rights. The third wave is now and it’s fighting for the rights of gender equality and the global woman. One aspect of globalization is the global movement of people. If we are to remove the binary of male and female, should we not soften our perspective on national identity as well? Globally women face human trafficking, honour killings, infanticide, exploitation through sex trade and tourism, rape as an act of war, genital mutilation, and various other forms of oppression and lack access to education, legal and political rights, reproductive rights. Throughout Shteyngart’s Absurdistan women play few roles, have few rights and are subject to the manipulation, protection (on occasion), or predation of men. Feminism in Canada today attempts to stand up for those global women who are being exploited and preyed upon worldwide. As Shteyngart points out in Absurdistan, it is often western countries that are doing the exploiting, so it is our responsibility. If we acknowledge that through western aggressive actions (like those of Halliburton), we are creating desperate situations for people who have limited options (like the woman selling her five-year old for sexual favours to buy food), we can hold ourselves accountable to defend the undefended. I am a feminist because on a very basic level I believe that women and children should never be discriminated against based on their gender, and they are.



RachelMorr-
ison
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Posts: 4
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Re: We Should Not Be Feminists
on: April 5, 2017, 22:30

As I read through this thread I can understand the thought process of the original post. Feminism is seen by many people as a way to continue the divide between sexes; to raise women above men. I do not, however, agree with this assessment. As a woman, and a feminist, I believe it is very important for everyone to be a feminist, regardless of gender. Feminism is defined as the equality of the sexes, through particularly social, economic, political, etc. issues. When Adichie mentions the systematic issues of the past which feminists have faced, I believe it is important to remind ourselves of the importance of these issues. Less than 100 years ago women did not have the right to vote, could not own property or a business, divorce their husbands, etc., the list goes on and on and it is because of the waves of feminism that many women today have these rights. Not every woman around the world has these rights however, they are still fighting. As a woman I cannot live in a world built by feminists and besmirch woman who have not won these rights yet by stating that it does not apply to me. They are still fighting and so should we. Furthermore, although your statement that you have never experienced oppression or sexism of any sort is personal, I find it hard to believe. I have worked in customer service for three and a half years now and every day at work I am belittled. When a male customer calls me sweetheart or baby or princess it is an act of oppression; a reminder that I am a woman serving this man. I experience sexist comments, names, and looks on a daily basis. Yes I am a woman, yes I am oppressed, and yes I am a feminist.

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