American hedonism closes its eyes to death, and has been
incapable of exorcising the destructive power of the moment
with a wisdom like that of the Epicureans of antiquity.

- Octavio Paz
Death is un-American, and an affront to every citizen's inalienable
right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

- Arnold Toynbee
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the_band_huge
"As long as such self-serving hypocrisy
motivates America's response, Ukraine will
only sink further into needless bloodshed,
and that blood will be on America's head."
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
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In America everybody is of the opinion that he has no social superiors,
since all men are equal, but he does not admit that he has no social inferiors,
for, from the time of Jefferson onward, the doctrine that all men are equal
applies only upwards, not downwards.

― Bertrand Russell
Global Coke
Global Coke
"What those 'racists' are reflexively and rightly reacting
to is the soulless chill as the fire goes out beneath the
melting pot. Those who think America can thrive as a
'cultural mosaic' are worse than fools; they're Canadians."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
Global Coke
Two centuries ago, a former European colony decided to catch up with Europe.
It succeeded so well that the United States of America became a monster,
in which the taints, the sickness and the inhumanity of Europe
have grown to appalling dimensions.

― Frantz Fanon
What the United States does best is understand itself.
What it does worst is understand others.

- Carlos Fuentes
Poor Mexico, so far from God
and so close to the United States.

- Porfirio Diaz
the_band_huge
the_band_huge
"Indeed, everything about the American southland was magical
and exotic to the young Canadian musicians, from the sights
and smells to the drawling manner of speech to, especially, the
central role that music played in people’s everyday lives."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
the_band_huge
America is a mistake, a giant mistake.
- Sigmund Freud
America is an adorable woman chewing tobacco.
- Auguste Bartholdi
chimerica
chimerica
"This is the tone of the China Century, a subtle
mix of Nazi/Soviet bravado and 'oriental'
cunning -- easily misunderstood, and
never
heard before, in a real enemy, by the West."

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chimerica
Coke and 'America the Beautiful'
Coke and 'America the Beautiful'
"And for the others who argued for English-only
patriotism, I note that there are more than
57 million Americans (about 20% of the nation)
whose first-language is not English...."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
Coke and 'America the Beautiful'
predator-firing-missile4
predator-firing-missile4
"This is the behavior, and the fate, of paranoid
old-world tyrants like Hitler or Saddam, not liberal new-world democracies like America pretends to be."

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
predator-firing-missile4
America is the only nation in history which
miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to
degeneration without the usual interval of civilization.

- Georges Clemenceau
I found there a country with thirty-two religions and only one sauce.
- Charles–Maurice Talleyrand
A people who are still, as it were, but in the gristle,
and not yet hardened into the bone of manhood.

- Edmund Burke
America is the only country ever founded on the printed word.
- Marshall McLuhan
"The removal of racist sports nicknames (and mascots) seems outrageously belated
-- why, exactly, has this civil rights cause
taken so long to gain momentum?"

JOIN THE DISCUSSION
The atom bomb is a paper tiger which the
United States reactionaries use to scare people.
It looks terrible, but in fact it isn't.

- Mao Tse-tung
They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but
they kept only one; they promised to take our land, and they did.

- Red Cloud
In America sex is an obsession,
in other parts of the world it is a fact.

- Marlene Dietrich
I would rather have a nod from an American,
than a snuff-box from an emperor.

- Lord Byron
One day the United States discovered it was an empire.
But it didn’t know what an empire was.
It thought that an empire was merely the biggest of all corporations.

- Roberto Calasso
Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather
be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

- Alexis de Tocqueville
newtown
newtown
"No one, I thought, could watch those scenes, of young children slaughtered en masse, and so many parents grieving, without thinking that this, finally, would tip some kind of balance in the country."
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
newtown
If you are prepared to accept the consequences of your dreams
then you must still regard America today with the same naive
enthusiasm as the generations that discovered the New World.

- Jean Baudrillard
I am willing to love all mankind, except an American.
- Samuel Johnson
America, thou half brother of the world;
With something good and bad of every land.

- Philip Bailey
"What can be more powerful than disinformation in the Information Age?"
JOIN THE DISCUSSION
England and America are two countries separated by the same language.
- Sir Walter Besant
Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honored by
posterity because he was the last to discover America.

- James Joyce
Now, from America, empty indifferent things
are pouring across, sham things, dummy life.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
If the United States is to recover fortitude and lucidity,
it must recover itself, and to recover itself it must
recover the "others"- the outcasts of the Western world.
- Octavio Paz
The youth of America is their oldest tradition.
It has been going on now for three hundred years.

- Oscar Wilde
"America really is, for most Americans, all things considered, a good place to be, and all they really want is for everyone to enjoy the same privilege and pleasure."
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When good Americans die they go to Paris;
when bad Americans die they go to America.

- Oscar Wilde
jobs drug dealer
jobs drug dealer
They're nothing more than traffickers; and as the smart traffickers'll tell you, you don't use the merchandise. They are just inoculating their kids with a tech-drug serum, to immunize them against the very merchandise that put the **** bowling alley in their basement.
jobs drug dealer
America is therefore the land of the future, where, in the ages that
lie before us, the burden of the World's History shall reveal itself.

- Georg Friedrich Hegel
America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room.
Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair.

- Arnold Toynbee
Americans always try to do the right thing after they've tried everything else.
- Winston Churchill
The thing that impresses me most about Americans
is the way parents obey their children.

- Edward, Duke of Windsor
Americans are apt to be unduly interested in discovering
what average opinion believes average opinion to be.

- John Maynard Keynes
Europe was created by history.
America was created by philosophy.

- Margaret Thatcher
America is God's crucible, the great Melting-Pot where all the races of
Europe are melting and reforming!... The real American has not yet arrived.
He is only in the crucible, I tell you - he will be the fusion of all races.

- Israel Zangwill
American dreams are strongest in the hearts of those
who have seen America only in their dreams.

- Pico Iyer
America: It's like Britain, only with buttons.
- Ringo Starr
The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer.
It has never yet melted.

― D.H. Lawrence
I have two conflicting visions of America.
One is a kind of dream landscape and the other is a kind of black comedy.

― Bono
The American mirror, said the voice, the sad American mirror
of wealth and poverty and constant useless metamorphosis,
the mirror that sails and whose sails are pain.

― Roberto Bolaño

April 16, 2024

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Author Topic: From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US


MP
Novice Their American
Posts: 8
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From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US
on: October 23, 2015, 20:25

The American Dream has not changed much since the time when Fitzgerald wrote The Great Gatsby. It is still a common belief that in America each individual has control over their own destiny: with honest hard work and determination, anyone can climb the social ladder and come out on top, comfortable and rich. However, this American ideal is just as hollow today as it is in Gatsby’s America, where the only way for “average Joe” James Gatz to penetrate the exclusive elite of the upper classes is through deception, corruption, and fraud. Today, the gaping inequality between the upper and lower classes makes it almost impossible for citizens born in the poorest classes to achieve upward social mobility (a phenomenon known as the Great Gatsby curve). Because of unequal opportunities, Americans from the poorest quintile have less than a 10% chance of ever making it into the top quintile, and only a 20% chance of attaining a higher economic status than their parents. For many Americans, the American Dream is simply unattainable.

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/07/the_myth_destroying_america_why_social_mobility_is_beyond_ordinary_peoples_control/

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-america-no-less-socially-mobile-it-was-generation-ago-mobility-measured



sarahmedei-
ros
Novice Their American
Posts: 8
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Re: From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US
on: October 30, 2015, 07:48

I 100% agree with MP above. The Great Gatsby is a classic not only because of its dazzling, in-depth representation of the Roaring Twenties, but also because the relevance of its message has not disappeared. Modern-day celebrities such as Kim Kardashian could be compared to Daisy, whose past relationships seemed to have fluctuated with her fiancee's bank accounts. There are characters like Gatsby seen everywhere, whether on Drugs Inc. with masks covering their faces explaining how they've made millions to a camera, or a regular entrepreneur who has stepped on a few feet to climb the ladder of success. The book itself resonates with readers today because they recognize the shallowness and selfishness of the empty characters on the page as people they may know or have known, and the lack of change is frustrating. However, the economy has changed much since Nick was in the bonds business. As said by Marianne Cooper,

"For more and more families, achieving the traditional American dream has become just that—a dream. Instead, what surveys indicate is that people are downsizing their definition of the American dream. Today, the desire to own a home or to move up economically is often replaced by a desire to be debt free and to have financial stability."

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/american-dreams/408535/

Although the American Dream still exists and capitalism runs rampant, our goal as a society has changed. Financial stability and a lack of debt is considered more important than a Rolls Royce or being able to throw lavish parties. Reasonably, it should. But deep down...isn't that still everyone's dream?



Shealyn
Novice Their American
Posts: 8
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Re: From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US
on: November 2, 2015, 12:28

I agree with the above two posts that the American dream is still apparent, but is mostly unattainable for certain demographics of Americans. In today's America, because of the large population of Americans, and the growing number of young adults completing post-secondary education and competing in the job market, there simply aren't enough opportunities for everyone. In Gatsby's time, this lack of mobility in the workforce was closely tied to race, gender, and class. Today, these issues are still relevant. There are parts of America where racism is as rampant as it was back then. Women have much more opportunity now, but still must face obstacles such as the "glass ceiling". Class is still a large issue in terms of the economic opportunities granted to some and not others; the divide between upper and lower class is still an issue. Added to all of this, there is more competition as young adults complete post-secondary education in hopes of attaining a good career. This is a significant difference between now and Gatsby's time. Education did not seem to play as big a part in the book as it does in society now. In order to achieve the American dream, one has to be sufficiently educated and possess the required skills to achieve a stable, well-paying job. Because of the large number of young adults competing in the job market after university or college, less opportunities may be available. Therefore, achieving the American dream becomes even more difficult.



Nicole
Novice Their American
Posts: 8
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Re: From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US
on: November 3, 2015, 18:34

I too agree that the American Dream remains a widely striven for ideal in modern society, however it is as elusive today as it was in Gatsby's narrative time. The divide between the upper and lower classes in constantly increasing, resulting in a rich-get-richer and poor-get-poorer society. However I would like to point out that climbing to a higher social class and fulfilling the American Dream wasn't common or easy in Gatsby's world either. Gatsby all but sold his soul to transform himself from James Gatz to the 'great' Gatsby that Nick is so enthralled by. In order to fulfill the American Dream James Gatz perverted it, and took advantage of other Americans, to achieve what they could not. The means Gatz used to become Gatsby went against America herself, breaking her prohibition laws, rigging the championship game of her national pastime, and engaging in other illegal activities. Here Fitzgerald seems to be implying that the easiest way to achieve the American Dream is to cheat, lie, and counterfeit until you have become some you do not even recognize. In this way, it isn't even really you who has achieved the dream, but rather the characterchure who you have become. It is true that in the modern world it is very difficult to achieve the American Dream, but perhaps it was always that way. Perhaps "The Great Gatsby" is Fitzgerald's cautionary tale used to remind the reader that some things are more important than wealth and that, given Gatsby's fate, the American Dream simply isn't worth what one loses in the process of fulfilling it.



Alexandra-
Lynn
Novice Their American
Posts: 5
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Re: From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US
on: November 24, 2015, 21:36

It is undoubtable that the idea of the American Dream colours American literature. As stated above The Great Gatsby is a prime example, but it is not the only one. The theme transcends genres as well, guiding plays to their tragic end such as Arthur Miller’s Death of a Salesman, and propelling sentimentality in poetry such as Chaplinesque by H. Crane. A question brought to my attention recently via UTM’s Diasporic History course, is whether the Idea of the American Dream is attainable for non-white citizens. Author Ta Nehisi Coates, would argue that it is not, not because of a lack of trying but for an underlying racism. His opinion is confirmed to me by Faulkner’s A Rose for Emily and William’s treatment of race in A Streetcar Named Desire. That being said, I do not think that two texts are enough to prove or disprove this opinion. Therefore, I’ll pose the question: is the American Dream attainable for non-white Americans? Is this demonstrated in American Literature?



Gia Ting
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Posts: 4
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Re: From Average Joe to Great Gatsby? Social Mobility in the US
on: December 7, 2015, 23:13

To answer the above post, Ta-Nehisi Coates' book would argue that the American Dream is not attainable for non-white Americans because it is built on creating disparity between peoples. Regardless of the lack of systematic segregation in today's society, the division of peoples, particularly between whites and non-whites can be found in the economical differences that put certain groups into certain neighbourhoods, with lower qualities of health, education and overall lives. This disparity cannot be changed unless those in power are willing to give up their claim not just in cases of social justice, but in the overall institutions of America that promotes the rise of some peoples in detriment to others.

Going back to the topic of Gatsby, I think Nick's complex treatment of Gatsby's characterization does speak to an American sense of exceptionalism and dream to rise into power and influence. I think, on one hand, Nick cannot blame the way in which Gatsby gains his wealth given the many roadblocks that stand in his way through more legitimate means of success. The lavishness of the era definitely plays a role in making the book memorable, but it's unforgettable nature can also be questioned in the way the book ends. Does this mean that readers saw Gatsby's death as a tragedy purely in his disillusioned love for Daisy? Or did they see it coming given the way he rose to power? Moreover then, is the American Dream proven a hoax if it is ultimately unattainable for most people?

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